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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
58
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Posted - 2013.01.19 15:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
What if CCP is building a game that isn't what people want to play? I keep playing because there are parts of the game I like, even though I don't like most of it. After reading the CSM7 Meeting Minutes, it appears that CCP is responsible for a lot of the things I don't like.
Originally, I blamed the problem on the players, but, after the CSM7 meeting, I think I'm starting to see where the real problem lies.
As developers of the game, they can take it in any direction they want as long as people are still willing to pay for it. But are they even headed in the direction that will make them the most money?
They mention, periodically, that they have 100s of thousands of players, but the information on paying subscribers seems to be hard to find. What are the chances that they are counting the thousands of trial accounts that have expired as 'players', or the three accounts I have that I shut down? Figuring out how many paying subscribers they have should be trivial, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.
Sorry for getting side-tracked there. The real issue is, are they ignoring the options that would make this game more accessible and more desirable to more people, and to us, the active players?
Do they still have the Incarna mindset? That what the players want doesn't matter? |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
61
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Posted - 2013.01.19 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok. One example. CCP seems to think that High Sec ganking is a necessary part of the game.
Necessary for what? |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
61
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Posted - 2013.01.19 16:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes.
I never said they have a game that no one wants to play. I did say that there are parts of it I like. What I'm asking is if they are ignoring ways to make it better.
I'm not an elitist. I don't feel like a god because I have been able to hang on for three years. I would enjoy having more people in the game. So would CCP. They aren't going to get them unless they make some changes.
What percentage of trial accounts turn into subscribers? Why is that?
One of my problems with a lot of this is that this is the only on-line game I've ever played.
Another problem is that I spent several years as a contract programmer. First rule is give the client what they ask for as long as it is possible to do that efficiently and profitably.
CCP doesn't seem to care about that at all.
Edit: BTW, that comment about Hi Sec ganking being necessary to keep the economy stable is pure hogwash. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
61
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. You mean the metric they do reveal with some consistency? Not Politically Correct wrote:I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes. PLEXes make no difference in that count (and counting the money would be inaccurate anyway since there is no single fix cost for an account). Mrk Paradox wrote:They identify a connection, which the server can record. That, unlike ips, are not dynamic. GǪbut which doesn't tell you anything since, again, it's not unique or tied to a single person in any way. If you're saying that you want the client to start mapping its close-by network, I'm sure there is a nice collection of privacy laws that would classify EVE as illegal spyware at that pointGǪ
Ok. Let me put it this way. Is there any way for US to find out how many active, non-trial, accounts there actually are? |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
Not publicly I'm sure. Only accounts actively logged in.
Doesn't that kind of make you wonder? If I were providing a service like this, for pay, I would want to know what that number was on an hourly basis, and would base business decisions on it. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Yes. Ask CCP. They publish that number every now and then.
Are you talking about the infamous 450k number? Or is it published somewhere else?
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
The problem is that I don't really like the way that the game has been going. More precisely, the direction that the game seems to be headed in. I didn't realize until the CSM 7 December Meeting Notes came out, that CCP is the driving force behind many of the things I don't like. I thought that stuff just happened on it's own and CCP didn't care enough to do anything about it.
Thus my post. Do they know what they are doing and the effect it is having? Are they willing to change direction if a better direction is pointed out to them? It doesn't seem that either is true. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 18:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Another problem is that I spent several years as a contract programmer. First rule is give the client what they ask for as long as it is possible to do that efficiently and profitably. I've been working as an software analyst, system designer and a project manager for almost 8 years now and I have never been in a situation where I had to satisfy the concerns and needs of multiple thousands of client(s) with different perspective and different tastes. So no, while the "first rule" by what you were saying does apply, it's not in the way that you think it applies. So, TL;DR, your whole posts can be summed up as this.
Your signature line, not included of course, tells me everything I need to know about you.
Programming is programming. It doesn't matter how big the user base is. I've written stuff for use by thousands. All had different perspectives, etc. I did my best to give them what they wanted, not what I wanted or thought they should have. You write for the people who pay you, not for yourself. The software developer's likes and dislikes are irrelevant.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
63
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Posted - 2013.01.19 20:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mickeysoft (Microsoft) hasn't gone out of business, and everything they have ever released has been garbage. Go figure. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
63
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Posted - 2013.01.19 20:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Mickeysoft (Microsoft) hasn't gone out of business, and everything they have ever released has been garbage. Go figure. Welcome back to the forums, NickyYo.
I guess that is supposed to mean something to me. Sorry. It doesn't.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
63
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Posted - 2013.01.19 21:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:The problem is that I don't really like the way that the game has been going. More precisely, the direction that the game seems to be headed in. I didn't realize until the CSM 7 December Meeting Notes came out, that CCP is the driving force behind many of the things I don't like. I thought that stuff just happened on it's own and CCP didn't care enough to do anything about it.
Thus my post. Do they know what they are doing and the effect it is having? Are they willing to change direction if a better direction is pointed out to them? It doesn't seem that either is true. CCP clearly knows what is going on and the effect it is having. CCP will not change its direction because of one forum whiner with zero information that thinks he knows more than CCP. CCP makes the game CCP wants to play and will not turn it into WoW in space no matter how many ridiculous claims you make about how much more money it will make. Fact is that changing EVE to fit with other MMORPGs will kill it in less than a year and CCP knows this. EVE is a niche game and will *only* survive by playing to their strengths. This is basic business 101. What you want is for EVE to copy other MMORPGs. This results in failure such as when microsoft released the Zune to copy the iPod. Look it up. You want to turn EVE into the freaking Zune and you think it will make money. You have zero business sense and CCP will happily ignore you and continue to be successful.
As I have said, many times, I have never played any other online game. Consequently, I know nothing about them. Also, I have never heard of a Zune.
Since when did I become a whiner? Is that the new term for people who disagree with the status quo? If so. it is nice to know, but doesn't do anything to fix the problems.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
63
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Posted - 2013.01.19 21:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:The only competitor to EvE, is EvE itself.
The secret to increase subs? Deliver more awesome patches like Apochrypha (and even Retribution, cruisers pew pew speaking) and less garbage like Dominion and Tyrannis and they are set to success.
You are right, unfortunately, about Eve being it's only competitor. That's actually pretty sad. No incentive to change their mindset.
I don't agree that more shiney upgrades are going to save the game, though. It appears to me, and maybe me only, that when CCP reaches their goal, whatever that is, we're all going to be neck deep in faeces in an uninhabitable universe. Then the games of 'Russin Sleigh Ride' will start, excpet that people will be volunteering to be thrown to the wolves. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
63
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Posted - 2013.01.19 21:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:In an effort to make "more" money Coca-Cola sells syrup to bottlers in other countries, who damn near all are violating human rights laws. The parent company Coca-Cola is constantly being suid by human rights groups for supporting those bottlers and continueing to sell them syrup, to make "more" money.
Extreme example is extreme, but it illustrates this simple point.
Just because you can do something to make more money, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Shitting on your customers to attract people who SHOULDN'T be playing EVE to begin with, is not an option just because it can make you "more" money.
And, It's that very mentality that, "it'll make you more money" that leads to companies like Coke doing the things they do, as well as the ability to get away with it. People who think that way tend to not give a **** what's being done, especially when it's not effecting THEM adversely.
Who cares if they **** on the rest of us to make more money, that's what you're saying, right?
The extra money would be a side effect only. One I think that might interest them more than any humanitarian consideration.
And who decides who is and isn't suited to play Eve? You? If CCP had ever even given a thought to that, there wouldn't be trial accounts.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
64
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Posted - 2013.01.19 21:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:In an effort to make "more" money Coca-Cola sells syrup to bottlers in other countries, who damn near all are violating human rights laws. The parent company Coca-Cola is constantly being suid by human rights groups for supporting those bottlers and continueing to sell them syrup, to make "more" money.
Extreme example is extreme, but it illustrates this simple point.
Just because you can do something to make more money, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Shitting on your customers to attract people who SHOULDN'T be playing EVE to begin with, is not an option just because it can make you "more" money.
And, It's that very mentality that, "it'll make you more money" that leads to companies like Coke doing the things they do, as well as the ability to get away with it. People who think that way tend to not give a **** what's being done, especially when it's not effecting THEM adversely.
Who cares if they **** on the rest of us to make more money, that's what you're saying, right? Welcome to 21st century capitalism. Those two companies don't care about whines on the forums. They want a return on their invesment and if CCP does poorly they will start pulling the strings just like any other business owners who want their invesment return. Its simply the fact of capitalism.
You're talking about a side issue. The discussion is about CCP's focus. Is it right. Are they headed in the right direction. I certainly don't think so.
EDIT: I don't think they are headed in the right direction for either CCP or the players. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
64
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Posted - 2013.01.19 22:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm not really saying what CCP is doing is right or wrong, I'm just stating its reality of the system. In the end they'll do what they think will maximize profits in order to give their owners a return in their invesment.
Hell the CCP devs may even be in disagreement of what their parent companies what them to do (we don't know), but in the end the owners of the company call the shots and obviously that is a return on their investment.
This I agree with, but I'm not trying to get at the devs, even they are the most visible part of CCP. I think we need to give the bean counters something to think about.
Change will have to be from top down, but I think change is necessary.
From the meeting notes, it appears that the devs, fow whatever reason, are trying to integrate a single person shooter with a space exploration game, and doing it badly.
The CSM may have been just a clever PR move, especially since they don't really seem to have ANY say in anything, but who are the CSMs? People who have been playing long enough to have enough friends to get them elected. Doesn't that kind of suggest that they have already accepted CCP's focus on development, whether they actually like it or not?
Does CCP ever really look at the reasons that Trial accounts don't turn into subscriptions? I doubt that there is any way to find out why the people who say 'no' do that. I think CCP really ought to care. Admittedly, someone who plays for five minutes and then quits because he got ganked by a can dropper doesn't leave a big footprint behind, but you can't blame him for leaving. Losing his first ship for reasons unknown is not what most people consider fun.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
64
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Posted - 2013.01.19 22:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Now we are getting somewhere. Two posts in a row that I totally agree with, and are right on the track of the thread.
I was hoping I wasn't the only one who saw the problems. :)
Ooops, too slow. There's a dissenter in the house. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
64
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Posted - 2013.01.19 22:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Does CCP ever really look at the reasons that Trial accounts don't turn into subscriptions? I doubt that there is any way to find out why the people who say 'no' do that. I think CCP really ought to care. Admittedly, someone who plays for five minutes and then quits because he got ganked by a can dropper doesn't leave a big footprint behind, but you can't blame him for leaving. Losing his first ship for reasons unknown is not what most people consider fun. Make highsec safer. Somehow I don't think this would be a good idea. Before anything else there are mainly two things that keep people from EVE. First and foremost it is the ever-famous "EVE learning cliff" which in all honesty more or less translates to EVE interface more than anything else. The mechanics themselves, whilst numerous are rather easy to learn if you actually bother breaking them down into smaller pieces. The latest overhauls on the interfaces have been marvellous however and should keep improving as they have lately. The fitting screen would be a good candidate to revamp next. Whilst I am not a general fan of "hand-holding", for instance T1 fitting suggestions could be an option worth having. Second reason which is probably more overlooked than people would think, is that many players are not that good/used to setting their own goals alternatively EVE is not good at telling players what goals that are potentially available.
Both good points. I've been told many times that Eve isn't like other games. The thing that bothers me, though, is the number of people who don't even stay with it long enough to find out that the learning curve is steep because CCP seems to enjoy new players getting blown up. I can't see that adding much to the stability of the economy, or anything else.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 02:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wow! You guys just noticed the other thread, listed on the same page? A bunch of budding Sherlock Holmeses. Unfortunately, you didn't read enough of it. Short attention spans? Hmmm. There's medication for that.
Don't know what WoW is. Never played it, so the reference means nothing.
You obviously have only read the parts of this thread that you wanted to as well.
I'm sorry, but opinions like yours are not the ones I am interested in. Try looking for the posts that agree with me. There aren't many, but are we the crazy ones? I wouldn't keep posting if I thought we were.
The original post was a question, not a declaration. As ususal, in the Eve Forums, more commonly known as Fight Pits, most of the responses have been irrelevant, meaningless, or obvious knee-jerk reactions.
People, save yourself some time. If you don't like the thread, ignore it.
Believe me, a whole lot of things will have to change before CCP moves it's peanut brain, and elephant butt into a new track.
EDIT: Oh, more people playing since the game started? I don't think I need to comment on that. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 03:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote: Don't know what WoW is. Never played it, so the reference means nothing.
You should try it. I don't think you "get" what EVE is and you probably never will because: Not Politically Correct wrote: I'm sorry, but opinions like yours are not the ones I am interested in
So why don't you give me all your ISK and contract me all your stuff and spare us yet another whining post about how bad you are at this game.
I've been playing since July of 2009. Not sure about you, but I'm still hanging on, and making ISK. I'm just not enjoying it as much as I used to. :)
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 03:56:00 -
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Xinivrae, you are irrelevant.
Other poster, why sit here, like a rock, and endure something that could be a good game turn into a bad game, when there is something that can be done about it?
I don't play any other online games, or any other games of any type, as I have said many times. Why would I leave this one instead of trying to make it better?
EDIT: Is that the way you address all problems? If you run into one, run away? Sorry, I'm not that kind of person. |
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nico elScorpio wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Xinivrae, you are irrelevant.
Other poster, why sit here, like a rock, and endure something that could be a good game turn into a bad game, when there is something that can be done about it?
I don't play any other online games, or any other games of any type, as I have said many times. Why would I leave this one instead of trying to make it better?
EDIT: Is that the way you address all problems? If you run into one, run away? Sorry, I'm not that kind of person. It's not running away it's understanding some elementary basics: 1. "good" and "bad" doesn't exists. those are personal opinions, therefore more or less illusions. whats bad for you is good for someone else and the other way round 2. people always tried to make things "better". in other words to turn them into something they find more attractive. but maybe its losing attraction for somebody else then. who shall be attracted more? you? why? 3. A lot of valuable feedback is raining down on CCP every day, why not trust them to just take the things into account they want to use for their vision of the game and reject others they don't? They made this thing man! they know most about it and they have the bigger picture most single players cannot have! 4. "running away" in this case is just looking for something else that fits your persona more, your needs and requirements. The world is rich mate, why trying to change stuff instead of exploring it and trying too find somehting that suits you way better? see its not about accepting everything, its about how you communicate. is it complaining and whining and somelike like "its bad, its getting worse, that has to improve..." or is it just constructive like "this and that could improve a situtation that in my opinion could be more pleasurable for more people than only me.." .. and mate, in the end everything is a matter of attitude, things shine when you see em shine
CCP ignores feedback. That's the whole point of this thread.
I am not capable of running away from problems. If something needs to be fixed, I do the best I can to fix it.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:41:00 -
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silens vesica wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:What if CCP is building a game that isn't what people want to play? I keep playing because there are parts of the game I like, even though I don't like most of it. After reading the CSM7 Meeting Minutes, it appears that CCP is responsible for a lot of the things I don't like. Well, duh. They're also responsible for the things you do like. Don't like a lot of things... and yet, here you are, posting about the game you claim to not like very much. Seems to me that CCP has your number down cold.
I want them to change it so that I do like it, AGAIN. Did you miss that part?
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Red Maiden wrote:Pretty easy thread to summarize:
CCP: The company who created and guided an MMORPG to 10 years of success in a highly-competitive industry. An industry that kills weak games and companies without mercy.
OP: A bitter player who has accomplished nothing in the gaming industry but thinks he knows more about what CCP should do than CCP itself. When he quits EVE, he'll proclaim that the game is dead to make himself feel better about himself.
Haven't we seen this thread a thousand times before?
Not planning to quit in your lifetime. :)
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:silens vesica wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:What if CCP is building a game that isn't what people want to play? I keep playing because there are parts of the game I like, even though I don't like most of it. After reading the CSM7 Meeting Minutes, it appears that CCP is responsible for a lot of the things I don't like. Well, duh. They're also responsible for the things you do like. Don't like a lot of things... and yet, here you are, posting about the game you claim to not like very much. Seems to me that CCP has your number down cold. I want them to change it so that I do like it, AGAIN. Did you miss that part? Did you miss my point? You're here, you're still playing the game. CCP has no incentive to change things to suit you.
So I should quit the game rather than trying to get some support to make them change it? I think I read about that once in 'Tactics Of Failure'.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 05:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xinivrae wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Aren't you interested in having the game better for YOU? Of course they are, why do you think they're disagreeing with you? Hmm... Perplexing...
O.o Were you born on a planet near Earth?
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
67
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Posted - 2013.01.20 06:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Schmeev Watatatata wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote: EDIT: I've already shut down three of my accounts. CCP didn't care about that either. Aren't you interested in having the game better for YOU?
It's like you filter out literally every valid point people make, you're an incredibly fascinating being to study. There are people in this world who are different than you and like different things. Where you see an improvement, they see a detriment. The important thing for CCP to weigh is how many people will a change in YOUR favor affect in a negative way? You don't see that, though. You just keep saying "I want these changes for me and that's all that matters, no one else's opinion counts."
Hehe. I haven't asked for specific changes. I've only asked if if other people see a need for a change.
Do you feel like a fool now? I don't.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
68
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Posted - 2013.01.20 07:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Schmeev Watatatata wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote: Hehe. I haven't asked for specific changes. I've only asked if if other people see a need for a change.
Do you feel like a fool now? I don't.
"CCP ignores feedback. That's the whole point of this thread. I am not capable of running away from problems. If something needs to be fixed, I do the best I can to fix it." So what's the basis on that statement if you've asked for no changes? Please, help us help you, or you will continue to flail about here going on about how nothing's changing when you ask for nothing. People asked for what you want changed and you mentioned hi-sec ganking. Good job, there's one, and people told you their opinions, you called them wrong because you have no idea how anything works, and then went on this same thing of "stop having different opinions than me, guys." So no, I feel like you should either get to requesting specific changes or deal with the game we have now, because for a guy that can't leave problems lying around, you're making absolutely no progress in addressing them.
Irrelevant. |
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